Thursday, July 21, 2005
Betting the Pot
Just a little FYI (for your information), if you're reading this site, you may have realized that this site is not for beginners. Nor is it for anybody to really use in all facets of poker playing. It mainly just works for ten person sit and go's or six person sit and go's, and maybe even multiple table tournaments. It definitely does not work for cash games. Cash games are a totally different animal, and I'll tell you why. In cash games, any dollar is worth the same amount as any other dollar. Whether you have a hundred dollars in your stack or five, it doesn't matter. In chip games like sit and go's however, your chips go down in value as you have more of them. You just can't afford to be tossing around chips when you don't have many (I'll have a talk about how to play short stack, its pretty easy actually, because you really can't bluff). When you're big stack, however, you can bluff people all the time, and there's nothing anybody can do about it (if they're smart). Furthermore, in chip games, the blinds go up. Therefore, pots get bigger as time goes on. So, even if you're slowly building your stack, any big hand at any time, will kill you. Whereas, in cash games, if you slowly build up your stack, you may still be way up even after losing a big pot. Anyways, without further ado, I bring you today's topic.
Betting the Pot:
Betting the pot is probably my biggest pet peeve, and probably the biggest error (in my opinion) that the good poker players still have. I hate seeing decent players lose because they're betting way too much. There are very few times where it makes any sense at all to bet the pot. Don't get me wrong, if these were cash games, it makes much more sense to make those huge bets. But in chip games, you are putting way too many chips in the middle. See the thing is, you are making everybody fold except those people who really have the good hands. So, if you have top pair, betting the pot is extremely stupid, if you get raised, what are you gonna do? You're already so pot committed. So, what should you do? I usually bet a little more than half the pot. That's usually good enough to say: I've got a good hand. But if you get raised, you can always lay it down without losing too many chips. In my book, not losing too much money when you don't have the best hand is one of the keys to winning these sit and go's.
Let me give you an example of why betting the pot is a bad idea. Lets say you have pocket kings with 1500 chips and the blinds are 50-100. You correctly raise to about 300 preflop, and are called by one person. Now, the flop comes up A 7 4 all different suits, with the pot being 750 and you having 1200 chips. Many people would bet the pot here, but lets think about this for a second. If you were to bet the pot, if the other guy had an ace, any ace, he would probably go over top of you, pushing you all in. At this point, you could either fold, leaving you a meager450 in chips, or you could call, most likely exiting you from the tournament. So its obvious what the disadvantage to betting the pot is here, are there any advantages? Some people would say that it might make the other person fold if he had an ace with a low kicker. That's not true. If he called your raise, there has to be some card that he's looking for. He's not going to call looking only for a two pair or better. He's saying, "if I get that ace, I'm betting it". Now, he may not have an ace, and just in case this is true, it is definitely correct to bet. A guy without an ace would be scared that you had an ace, though, and would fold for just about any sized bet. Therefore, in this case it would make much more sense to bet small (not so small that it would get someone to attempt a bluff-raise, however).
So, do I ever advocate betting the pot? Well, not really. I almost always bet half the pot (remember that its always best to be consistent no matter how you bet), or in some circumstances I'll go all in. The only time I would ever bet the pot is if I had a really good hand and I wanted somebody to call me, but I didn't think they would call me if I went all in. For instance, if you were playing somebody who consistently bet the pot, when you bet the pot against them they may think that you are playing the same way as them, and may be tempted to call with mediocre hands. Or, if the table image is centered around betting the pot, you may be able to follow the flow and get called. Once again, however, you must believe that you have a hand that is almost definitely the best hand to do this. So good that you want to be called.
There are other arguments as to other times when it is favorable to bet the pot such as a really good draw where you'd rather everybody folded, but even if someone has something really good and they call you still have a good shot to win. Personally, I still think its probably better to go all in than bet the pot in these cases. I say that simply because you're pretty much forcing yourself to go all in anyway, and you're giving the other guy a chance to fold if he puts you on the draw and it comes out.
I remember reading somewhere that a pot-sized bet is the best bluff, and perhaps this is why people continually do bet the pot. It may be the best size to bluff, and you may in the long run win more chips doing it than you've lost. The fact remains, however, that in these chip tournaments, the one time it doesn't work (because the blinds are getting bigger) will kill your stack. I'm sure the author of that book was talking about money games, where the blinds remain the same, and it may not kill your stack.
Playing against people who bet the pot often is really easy. All you do is wait until you get something that is really good, and then raise them back. Because they're so pot committed, they'll almost always call, and you'll win a huge pot. The great thing about playing people who bet the pot is you can fold a bunch of times to their pot-sized bet, and you'll still end up ahead from the one time that you raise them.
This really is much more of a problem at ultimate bet than at party poker cause they have that button you can press that automatically bets the pot. It really is amazing how that little button can change the game that much. And, that probably has somewhat to do why its easier to win sit and go's at ultimate bet than party poker. Go figure.
Betting the Pot:
Betting the pot is probably my biggest pet peeve, and probably the biggest error (in my opinion) that the good poker players still have. I hate seeing decent players lose because they're betting way too much. There are very few times where it makes any sense at all to bet the pot. Don't get me wrong, if these were cash games, it makes much more sense to make those huge bets. But in chip games, you are putting way too many chips in the middle. See the thing is, you are making everybody fold except those people who really have the good hands. So, if you have top pair, betting the pot is extremely stupid, if you get raised, what are you gonna do? You're already so pot committed. So, what should you do? I usually bet a little more than half the pot. That's usually good enough to say: I've got a good hand. But if you get raised, you can always lay it down without losing too many chips. In my book, not losing too much money when you don't have the best hand is one of the keys to winning these sit and go's.
Let me give you an example of why betting the pot is a bad idea. Lets say you have pocket kings with 1500 chips and the blinds are 50-100. You correctly raise to about 300 preflop, and are called by one person. Now, the flop comes up A 7 4 all different suits, with the pot being 750 and you having 1200 chips. Many people would bet the pot here, but lets think about this for a second. If you were to bet the pot, if the other guy had an ace, any ace, he would probably go over top of you, pushing you all in. At this point, you could either fold, leaving you a meager450 in chips, or you could call, most likely exiting you from the tournament. So its obvious what the disadvantage to betting the pot is here, are there any advantages? Some people would say that it might make the other person fold if he had an ace with a low kicker. That's not true. If he called your raise, there has to be some card that he's looking for. He's not going to call looking only for a two pair or better. He's saying, "if I get that ace, I'm betting it". Now, he may not have an ace, and just in case this is true, it is definitely correct to bet. A guy without an ace would be scared that you had an ace, though, and would fold for just about any sized bet. Therefore, in this case it would make much more sense to bet small (not so small that it would get someone to attempt a bluff-raise, however).
So, do I ever advocate betting the pot? Well, not really. I almost always bet half the pot (remember that its always best to be consistent no matter how you bet), or in some circumstances I'll go all in. The only time I would ever bet the pot is if I had a really good hand and I wanted somebody to call me, but I didn't think they would call me if I went all in. For instance, if you were playing somebody who consistently bet the pot, when you bet the pot against them they may think that you are playing the same way as them, and may be tempted to call with mediocre hands. Or, if the table image is centered around betting the pot, you may be able to follow the flow and get called. Once again, however, you must believe that you have a hand that is almost definitely the best hand to do this. So good that you want to be called.
There are other arguments as to other times when it is favorable to bet the pot such as a really good draw where you'd rather everybody folded, but even if someone has something really good and they call you still have a good shot to win. Personally, I still think its probably better to go all in than bet the pot in these cases. I say that simply because you're pretty much forcing yourself to go all in anyway, and you're giving the other guy a chance to fold if he puts you on the draw and it comes out.
I remember reading somewhere that a pot-sized bet is the best bluff, and perhaps this is why people continually do bet the pot. It may be the best size to bluff, and you may in the long run win more chips doing it than you've lost. The fact remains, however, that in these chip tournaments, the one time it doesn't work (because the blinds are getting bigger) will kill your stack. I'm sure the author of that book was talking about money games, where the blinds remain the same, and it may not kill your stack.
Playing against people who bet the pot often is really easy. All you do is wait until you get something that is really good, and then raise them back. Because they're so pot committed, they'll almost always call, and you'll win a huge pot. The great thing about playing people who bet the pot is you can fold a bunch of times to their pot-sized bet, and you'll still end up ahead from the one time that you raise them.
This really is much more of a problem at ultimate bet than at party poker cause they have that button you can press that automatically bets the pot. It really is amazing how that little button can change the game that much. And, that probably has somewhat to do why its easier to win sit and go's at ultimate bet than party poker. Go figure.
# posted by Clyde @ 10:35 PM 
